/deriv/ - Divination & Finance

Was this supposed to be a joke?
No one is laughing.

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>>2 (OP) 
Its a Chinese philosophical divination system, the Book of Changes , that has been in use since the 8th century BC. The only one to survive their burnings of philosophical works in the 3rd century BC. Generally the practice will use dried yarrow stalks or coins with square holes punched in them. Though coins seem more appealing to me, since I can't be asked to keep 50 stalks on hand. Its assembled from a series of either broken or unbroken lines providing 64 possible hexagrams from the combination of two of the eight trigrams. Li Kun Xun Quian Kan Zhen Ghen and Dui staring from the top and going clockwise in pic related. Representing Fire Earth Wind Breath Water Thunderbolt Mountain and River read in that same order as before. Each broken and unbroken line itself represent the negative and positive respectively. Ofcourse these lines can have the property of changing or not as well.

flipping 6 sets of 3 coins will determine the hexagram, one line at a time from the bottom up. 

where x represents tails and o represents heads

xxx   - -   Changing Yin
xxo   —   Yang
xoo   - -   Yin
ooo   —   Changing Yang

hope this helps

>>3
I try to always be laughing.

>>4
Might also be worth mentioning that all three coins are flipped at once. This is accomplished by cupping all three in your hands then tossing them into the air.

Unicode Hexagram

01 ䷀	02 ䷁	03 ䷂	04 ䷃	05 ䷄	06 ䷅	07 ䷆	08 ䷇	
09 ䷈	10 ䷉	11 ䷊	12 ䷋	13 ䷌	14 ䷍	15 ䷎	16 ䷏
17 ䷐	18 ䷑	19 ䷒	20 ䷓	21 ䷔	22 ䷕	23 ䷖	24 ䷗	
25 ䷘	26 ䷙	27 ䷚	28 ䷛	29 ䷜	30 ䷝	31 ䷞	32 ䷟
33 ䷠	34 ䷡	35 ䷢	36 ䷣	37 ䷤	38 ䷥	39 ䷦	40 ䷧	
41 ䷨	42 ䷩	43 ䷪	44 ䷫	45 ䷬	46 ䷭	47 ䷮	48 ䷯
49 ䷰	50 ䷱	51 ䷲	52 ䷳	53 ䷴	54 ䷵	55 ䷶	56 ䷷	
57 ䷸	58 ䷹	59 ䷺	60 ䷻	61 ䷼	62 ䷽	63 ䷾	64 ䷿

Hexagram Names

01䷀Qián The Creative           17䷐Sui Following            33䷠Tun Retreat               49䷰Ko Molting/Revolution

02䷁K'un The Receptive          18䷑Ku Decay                 34䷡Da Zhuang Great Power     50䷱Ting Cauldron

03䷂Chun Difficult Beginnings   19䷒Lin Approach             35䷢Chin Progress             51䷲Zhen Shocking

04䷃Meng Youthful Folly         20䷓Kuan Contemplation       36䷣Ming Yi Brightness Hiding 52䷳Ken Keeping Still

05䷄Hsu Nourished While Waiting 21䷔Shi Ho Biting Through    37䷤Chia Jen Family           53䷴Ji’an Development

06䷅Sung Conflict               22䷕Bi Grace                 38䷥K’uei Opposition          54䷵Kui Mei Propriety

07䷆Shih Army                   23䷖Po Split Apart           39䷦Jian Obstruction          55䷶Feng Abundance

08䷇Pi Uniting                  24䷗Fu Return                40䷧Jie Liberation            56䷷Lu The Wanderer

09䷈Hsiao Ch'u Small Restraint  25䷘Wu Wang Innocence        41䷨Sun Decrease              57䷸Xun Penetration

10䷉Lǚ Treading                 26䷙Ta Ch’u Controlled Power 42䷩Yi Increase               58䷹Tui Joy

11䷊T'ai Peace                  27䷚Yi Nourishing Vision     43䷪Guai Determination        59䷺Huan Dispersion

12䷋P'i Standstill              28䷛Ta Kuo Critical Mass     44䷫Gou Coming to Meet        60䷻Jie Limitation

13䷌T'ung Jen Fellowship        29䷜Kǎn Abyss                45䷬Cui Gathering Together    61䷼Zhong Fu Inner Truth

14䷍Ta Yu Great Possessing      30䷝Li Clarity               46䷭Sheng Pushing Upward      62䷽Xiao Guo Small Exceeding

15䷎Qian Authenticity           31䷞Hsien Influence/Wooing   47䷮Kùn Oppression/Exhaustion 63䷾Chi Chi After Completion

16䷏Yu Enthusiasm               32䷟Heng Duration            48䷯Jing The Well             64䷿Wei Chi Before Completion

>>4
>>5
Oh wow thanks anon. I wasn't really expecting this to get a reply after this long, so I'm glad I checked back. Guess I'm just not used to boards that are this slow?

These are kinda helpful, there's a lot of general information you've posted here. I'm not sure I really understand how to use the system from what you posted though. What do the changing lines mean? Like why would that distinction be made if you're just going to end up with the same hexagram either way?
I'm also confused as to what would the point of doing the reading with sticks be?

Additionally I think the attachment is broken, it won't download for me.

>>6
well changing lines are where things start to get really complicated, so ill try to keep it as simple as possible

you don't always get changing lines in a hexagram, but when you do you end up with two hexagrams where yin/yang lines go from segmented to solid or vice versa. it might be easier to understand them as old vs new lines rather than changing and unchanging. you see how the ☯ is central in >>4 image? that's because the ideas behind the Tai Ji are key to understanding not only why these lines change, but the system as a whole. the black and white halves represent yin and yang respectively, and each carries the seeds of the other within it. the way the split is drawn evokes the idea of a rotation because the change between these two is cyclical. when each is at the height of maturity it is entering into the other. when yin is old it becomes yang. when yang is old it becomes yin. here again the seeds of the other are at the entrance into that other represent the non opposition of the duality. duality as definition. it therefore follows that the xxx old yin line would change to yang and the ooo old yang line would follow suit. additionally x would be traditionally represented as 2 and o as 3. this because Tao is one (unity) two is yin which leads to three yang (together duality), that together form all things (trigrams hexagrams etc). Tai Ji again coming into play, representing the original one, as its whole, giving rise to duality, yin and yang.

all this means a total value of coins tossed will be either: 
6 old yin 
7 young yang 
8 young yin 
9 old yang

FOR EXAMPLE

(##3d2+3) Rolled 3 dice with 2 sides and modifier +3 = 8
(##3d2+3) Rolled 3 dice with 2 sides and modifier +3 = 9
(##3d2+3) Rolled 3 dice with 2 sides and modifier +3 = 7
(##3d2+3) Rolled 3 dice with 2 sides and modifier +3 = 7
(##3d2+3) Rolled 3 dice with 2 sides and modifier +3 = 6
(##3d2+3) Rolled 3 dice with 2 sides and modifier +3 = 8

>>7
looks like we got two changing lines, so we have two hexagrams. primary & potential 
old yin on line 2 and old yang on line 5 (a symmetrical change very fun) 
from ䷞ mountain below & river above to ䷟ wind below & thunderbolt above 
hexagram 31 Hsien Influence/Wooing to hexagram 32 Heng Duration

starting from the bottom: 867798 ䷞ 🠺 ䷟

6 young yin - - remains broken - -
5 old yang -o- becomes broken - -
4 young yang _ remains solid  _
3 young yang _ remains solid _
2 old yin -x- becomes solid _
1 young yin - - remains broken - -

31 ䷞ 🠺 ䷟ 32
we didn't ask a question so i'll just focus on bare bones method without bothering to interpret anything. 
above we have hexagram 31 which is our primary and 32 which is our potential
lines 2 and 5 change, so they are the lines we consult from the potential hexagram. 
we wont bother with the lines of the primary but concern ourselves with its over all archetype of both hexagrams.

䷞
archetype
influence / wooing / tension / conjunction
attraction and influence between two complementary parts of a whole

䷟
archetype
duration / continuity / persevering
long term commitment, steady determination and persistence

changing lines
2 keeps the golden mean/
5 clings to continuity/

>>6
as for why someone would want to use the yarrow stick method, and without getting into how its performed, i can think of 3 large differences

1. time
this method takes more time, but that's purely a benefit as long you have it. the hexagram comes gains definition one line at a time across two trigrams. this divination happens as a meditative exercise (this is a reason I didn't bother asking a question with our instant roll example), so with sticks you'll have more time to ponder your question as you see yins, yangs and changes pile up and give the answer shape. this ought to lead to greater insight, especially since i don't see anyone using this method on a question that isn't especially important to them. 

2. probability
with coins all outcomes have an equal chance, with yarrow sticks value 9 is thrice as likely as 6. if you see yang as more likely to transform than yin this would be your method.

3. tradition
this is the original method for the divination. maybe this makes it more meaningful to you.

hope the mods notice that pdf upload isn't working and fix it. would be really nice to be able to share those on here.

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>>8
>>7
I guess that answers what I asked, but I do think its a bit of a cop-out that you wouldn't even try to interpret your reading...

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>>9
alright bitch.
watch me interpret this

(##3d2+3) Rolled 3 dice with 2 sides and modifier +3 = 7
(##3d2+3) Rolled 3 dice with 2 sides and modifier +3 = 9
(##3d2+3) Rolled 3 dice with 2 sides and modifier +3 = 7
(##3d2+3) Rolled 3 dice with 2 sides and modifier +3 = 9
(##3d2+3) Rolled 3 dice with 2 sides and modifier +3 = 6
(##3d2+3) Rolled 3 dice with 2 sides and modifier +3 = 7

>>9
>>16
 changes on 2 3 and 5
Society/Concording People ䷌ -> ䷥ Neutrality/Polarizing

䷌ Society/Concording People
A social structure does not oppress you, you are in the second stage of a time cycle. Respect your superiors as they seek balance. Consider reading the Bhagavad-Gita 

Traditional reading of changing lines
2 You're a bit of a prick. You've been rude to more people than you ought to of and only some people in your incautious group are going to accept you. regrettable

3 You're an untrusting doofus who hides blades in the tall grass. your hesitancy causes friction and means you will not be accepted for a long time. this is a you problem, they've clearly shown their colours and are both tight knit loyal among themselves and as well as joined around a common cause

5 For whatever reason you don't have much of a choice in joining them. and while you are a brat about submission to norms you will be happy about having done so when all is said and done.

䷥ Neutrality/Polarizing
We are all a mix of two forces. You exist as a polar opposite in the situation but not in an actively antagonistic way. You are at a stalemate with yourself and could be blown in either direction. Rational judgement for small matters, but poor investment in those that require ethical conviction. Not traitorous, but without motivation to take sides. A good position to manage disputes and contemplate duality such as good and evil.




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( ・ω・)